When I connected with the BDSM community in 2008, I found so much more than a way to engage my kinks: a place to explore BDSM as well as my deepest human nature. For me, kink is not only sexual, but spiritual, emotional, and psychological, as well as a profound path for self- and other-exploration; in other words: intimacy, which may be my biggest kink. With years of mentoring, ministering, coaching, and teaching under my belt, I'm excited to share my ever expanding knowledge and experience with Dominant Guide readers, in a mutual learning process with you and the whole kink community. Rev was the lead author for Dominant Guide from 2012 to 2015

20 responses to ““Topping From the Bottom”- A Phrase to Use With Care”

  1. Lyoness

    Thank you for writing this article. In my experience (I’m a sub), I’ve only seen “topping from the bottom” used to silence bottoms that are either not having a very good time, or are somehow outside of the submissive stereotype. It’s nice to hear from a D-type that they have seen similar things and that they don’t support it. Sure, sometimes a s-type needs a little reminder of their role, but there are better ways to go about that than discouraging communication. I’m probably a little sensitive to this, because the first person I ever played with was awful about using that phrase and others like it against me when I tried to communicate my needs and wants respectfully. See also, “but you’re the submissive, you don’t get any say” and “you liked that. I can tell, even when you say otherwise.”

    Luckily, my Sir really encourages communication and doesn’t take every action as me trying to control things. His view is that if I can make a small request or adjustment that will make things better for me, then I should do so because it makes it better for both of us. Like putting his hand on my throat if it’s free, or putting myself in a more comfortable position so I can last longer during a spanking. The first few times I did this, I would apologize and be very disappointed in myself. Now, I don’t worry about it. Apparently, landing a smack on his bum when he’s bent over to get his clothes together is over the line though…….that one earned me a spanking.

  2. Johny Strongcock

    Caveat: What I am about to say is not P.C. in the BDSM community, and you are not going to like it. Too bad.

    I lived my life as a “Real Dom” for a few years. That means long before I learned anything about BDSM, I controlled women, inflicted pain, real pain, extreme pain, and it was for my enjoyment, not theirs. Sometimes they returned to play some more, other times they did not. Either way, I did not care because it was about me not about them. THAT is how a Real Dom rolls.

    Then I met a girl who had “lived the lifestyle” for about a decade, and I learned all the fancy words, protocols, etc. of being what I call a “BDSM dom,” which is basically a man who goes to great lengths to learn how to please women and with whom women have rough sex with, which usually amounts to nothing more than a medium to heavy game of “slap ass.”

    Your article proves my point when you say, “Personally, I want my bottom to have a good time enough of the time that they keep coming back for more.” If being a BDSM dom means making sure your sub is happy enough to come back for more, then BDSM doms are nothing more than eunuchs holding Hitachi’s for their Sub Queens. It is an inversion of reality where the Dom THINKS he is in control, but he is only in control so long as the sub tells him he is in control. LMFAO. What kind of control is that? Pseudo-control? And no, I am not talking about play that transcends limits or safety. I am talking about safe play within boundaries that simply isn’t to the sub’s optimal satisfaction.

    The reality about BDSM is this (brace yourself). The BDSM community consists primarily of overweight, middle-aged women or young girls with dyed hair struggling with psychological issues and calling themselves “artists.” Those two groups alone compromise about 80% to 90% of the female BDSM community. (Those hot ass babes in insex and kink.com videos? Well, they are about as typical as the hot ass babes knocking your door down asking to gangbanged by you and your friends. That’s right. They are all paid porn stars and are virtually non-existent in the real world.) The younger women usually / often engage in BDSM as a form of self-punishment for something they perceive as wrongdoing (e.g., losing custody of their children, failed marriage, alcoholism, etc) while the older women usually / often engage in BDSM in order to get a man who will have sex with them now that their physical beauty has passed and they have double or tripled in size. THAT is the reality of the BDSM community. Just log on to Alt.com if you don’t believe. And for the one’s that do not fit either of these profiles, about 99% are simply flaky and unstable as hell.

    So basically, the entire BDSM community is a bunch of fakes and flakes where the women compromise their own integrity to be with men who believe they are punishing women, but as soon as he does something the sub doesn’t like, she doesn’t come back. So like a “good little dom” he makes sure that he caters to and pleases the woman, like the eunuch bitch that he is.

    The moral of the story is that if you are a BDSM dom you are getting topped every time you make sure you give her an orgasm so that she comes back to you. It’s really no different that the woman who makes sure she sucks dick really good on the first date so that he calls her back. And whatever fancy term of art you want to give it, it certainly isn’t “domination” in the true sense of the word.

    So yes. All of you BDSM subs are topping BDSM doms from the bottom with your implied threat of not playing again if the scene does not give you optimum sexual satisfaction or otherwise meet your little demands. This, in turn, makes all so-called BDSM doms merely eunuchs in your sexual service.

    Needless to say, fuck BDSM. I went back to being a Real Dom. And if my “scene” doesn’t make a sub cum the way she prefers, or cum at all for that matter, so that they don’t want to play with me again, I really don’t care because, as I said, it’s about me, not about them. And THIS, dear friends, is what being a REAL Dom is all about.

  3. Johny Strongcock

    I never claimed “to know what the entire BDSM community is or is not.” I, like you, can only attest to my own experiences, and that is what I recounted in my posting. And I am a very much a staunch advocate that BDSM is whatever two people negotiate it to be and there is definitely MTOWTDI (“More Than One Way to Do It”). Indeed, there are perhaps infinite ways to do it insofar as everyone’s own subjective personal experience is unique unto themselves. Nor did I profess that “there is one way to be a ‘REAL Dom’”.

    What I AM saying is that, regardless what you want to call it, when a “Dom” caters to a sub and her desires, then he can by no stretch of the imagination be considered to be “dominating” anyone as that word is objectively defined. I am talking about objective reality and well-defined definitions. If a parent buys a child what he or she wants in order to appease the child and thereby avert a tantrum, the parent can by no means lay claim to that he or she is “in control” of or “dominating” the child and/or the situation. Such a claim is belied by the objective facts, which indicate that it is the child who is in fact in control and effectively dominating the parent and/or the situation.

    Your response, which is pretty much standard fare for the BDSM community, is basically, “If my partner and I wish to call our cat a dog, then it is a dog.” While you and your partner may indeed engage in play whereby you call your cat a dog and act as though it is in fact a dog, don’t try to sell the world on the idea that your cat is in fact a dog as those terms are objectively defined. Despite the “pet play” (pun intended), your cat is objectively and quantifiably a cat. And therein lies the problem.

    After playing with a BDSM sub for a while and figuring out the BDSM world, I announced, “This is not real,” to which she responded, “That depends on what you call ‘real’”. And that was the point of my original post. I am not saying that anyone is doing anything the “right” way or “wrong” way. I am saying only that what I did as a “Real Dom” was, in objective reality, “real” in every sense of the word while what was demanded of me from the BDSM world was, in objective reality, a mere sex game negotiated by two people and primarily “controlled” by the selfsame person who the participants are claiming is being controlled. I’m not saying anyone is wrong nor am I trying to cram anything down anyone’s throat. I am simply saying to the BDSM crowd, “Your cat is a cat, so stop telling the world that it’s a dog.”

    Why am I belaboring the point? Good question. Glad that you asked. I recently read a post online by some poor, young unwitting girl about a scene went awry and how some men think that BDSM is a license to “beat the shit out of women.” This is precisely what happens when a BDSM sub crosses paths with a Real Dom. She is seeking a game of sexual pleasure while he is in pursuit of subjecting her to real pain that exists in objective reality and about which there is no definitional dispute. I am sure you have heard of this situation happening on more than one occasion.

    So my point is this. So long as the BDSM community persists on calling what they do “real”, then women will continue to have “the shit” beat out of them by men who rely upon the claim that BDSM play is in fact “real.” The reality of BDSM is that it is a sex game that takes on varying forms and degrees, some more realistic and/or extreme than others, but it is a game nonetheless very much constructed around and controlled by the sub or slave. And it is in this way that BDSM Doms are topped from the bottom.

  4. lp

    Johny, I’d be curious to hear your definition of “real dom” side by side next to your definition of abuse, and see what the difference is for you.

    As for me, with identities I tend to let people self-identify and I don’t feel a strong need to question what people say they are. So a real dominant to me is a person who self-identifies as a dominant. It means different things to different people and it always will. And, that’s much easier than trying to fit people into constraining boxes (metaphorically, of course).

  5. Mrs.Howl

    Oh Woofff .. So much to respond to! Too much actually, so I’ll just chew a few bites.

    In many respects I totally grok exactly what Johny is saying .. because its very much how I think & live, & is why many ‘nillas say: ‘You think rules dont apply to you!’ Undeniable since I obv blatantly & obliviously thwart them all the time *shrugs* I’m Alpha/Dominant to the Nth & yes, I live My Way by My own code 24/7 365, including amidst the nillas. ‘Attitude isnt about acting as if you own the world; its behaving as if you dont care who owns it.” This I do ..basically roll My own Reality in & superimpose it when ever where ever I am, making the space My own. I’m as ‘Real’ & Alpha as One can get (& thus far too real both nilla & alt for many in general).

    BUT!! being a ‘Real Dominant’ doesnt mean One denies or lacks ethics, morals, & an understanding empathetic Heart!! Being 100% blustery Dom/mely Dom/me, supremely selfish, arrogant, cold, cruel, rude &/or inconsiderate arent required attributes at all.
    I’m a Nurturing DenMother/MamaBear/EarthMother & that doesnt make Me any less real or less powerful; in fact, it enhances both aspects AND inspires Devotion, negating the need to lure any back with base orgasms. The ‘lures’/rewards of Adoration/Devotion/Submission are simply more of My time/attention/favor/smiles.
    Nor does having a generous caring heart make Me any less of a Sadist >;) Oh hellz no! Pain is def a favorite playground & Fear delectable; & its Love that promotes bonds that enable/entice a bewitched beloved supplicant to willingly Suffer excessively in the mmmost exquisite fashion(s) ,, Mwahahahaaa YUM nom nom nommmm

    I do agree far far too many abusers do pose as dominants to more easily attain a roster of disposable sexpartners. But also, a relationship can be considered real/true bdsm without incorporating either sex or pain! Shocking & arguable pt for some. Seriously, for many BDSM isnt a game OR sexually oriented in the least. My collars & trainees dont ‘pretend’ to love/adore/admire/respect/obey Me .. & until recently I oft indulged in wiitwd instead of sex, not as a form of it; as I had nilla lovers for that. Regardless, 85% of My D/s interactions over decades have had Nothing to do with sexual ‘play’ or gratification .. not Mine, not theirs. I didnt/dont touch/handle their personal bits & they never even see Mine. Some were frivolities, but most of these relationships were/are very rich, intense & deeply bonded PowerExchanges.

    HOWEVER, there are indeed ‘submissives’ who’s general M.O. is topping from the bottom .. & I dont mean by negotiating details, or wriggling into a more comfortable position, or suggesting ideas or even begging, teasing, sassing or cajoling. I mean the ones who turn the power exchange into a continuous power battle; scripting, puppeting, defying, manipulating, arguing, demanding & declaring emotional ‘abuse’ whenever things arent as they deem most desirable.. This type def exists & tho some such ‘challenges’ are very worth the time/trouble; others are so hardheaded, selfserving & aggravating its best to let’m go.

    Nothing is cut & dried, one size fits all in this Realm and why judge, grade or belittle what doesnt concern you? Each dynamic & path is forged according to the particular individuals’ wants/needs/desires; & no one is qualified to define what is ‘right’ or ‘true’ .
    “To define anything is to limit it’ O Wilde .. & one thing for sure re D/s, BDSM .. it’s all encompassing, extremely personalized, & ever expanding/infinite in possibilities.

  6. Mrs.Howl

    ahahahahaha!! LemonMonster’s post; “Topping from the shut the fuck up” is an excellent read regarding diverse playstyles & what others see/infer vs what is :)

  7. Mrs.Howl

    *shrugs* Idk what was tickling me that Night surfing, but fetching the post was easybreezy Topping from the STFU: https://fetlife.com/users/1097604/posts/2542935
    & regarding Diversity here’s BeautyfulFreak’s post ‘the Construct of Normal’ as well: https://fetlife.com/users/991568/posts/2166537

  8. MistressM

    Wow! Coming across this website and it’s articles have realllly helped me in my search to learn more about my own dominance. I found my interest in bdsm but finding the right answers to my questions was difficult. This is because everyone has different opinions and thre are so many different terms, ideas and beliefs behind bdsm. Really though for example I didn’t enjoy being “bottomed from the top”. It felt contradictory to what I wanted /planned for the scene but I didn’t want to be a bitchy dom. I wanted to to still please my subs but at the same time I didn’t know how to react to explain that no I would like it this other way. Or maybe I’ll allow you this but only if you do this first, Etc. Thanks very much. :)

  9. Richard Bonder

    Wow, what a volley of words, ideas, and passions..
    Love your responses and ability to hear and respond.
    BDSM in my opinion is so much about a state of mind. And body of course!
    It’s like dating in the vanilla world, in that Everyone has their experiences in a unique way and we all seek something to connect with.

    Love your site.

    Thank you…

  10. xoxomiss

    To johny strongcock

    I have to say that you are not a “RealDom” or a Dom at all. People like you, who just want to do what they want and don’t care about how it affects others are called abusers. I have no idea of how are you going to keep your actions within boundaries of safety and consent if you absolutely don’t care about sub’s well-being. If someone feel raped and abused after the session, that means they have been raped and abused. As you know rape is a non-consensual sexual intercourse. So you have broken the first your claim.
    Safety means not only not being physically permanently hurt in the session, but also staying mentally well. Feeling violated definitely means being mentally unwell, or in some cases permanently mentally hurt. Thus your second claim is broken.
    If “RealDoms” are those, who use word BDSM to hurt people for their pleasure, then they are simply abusers and should be reported. Apparently for me and for any normal human.
    Johny, just think a bit about that there are “RealGayDoms” who would fuck you and abuse you just because of they want to ;) it would be a nice experience for you to happen at the other side of your behaviour.
    By theway, i’m happy that most of girls don’t come back to you and those like you. That means women are mostly healthy and confident, and bad guys get what is fair them to get – isolation and scorn.

  11. Stk420

    I am in a d/s relationship. I the dom is male my sub is female. I see a good and bad side to this term. In my relationship I use it in a very good way. I enjoy getting anal sex from my sub. Now I could just tell her to do it and she will. But I only want it on occasion so if my sub has been exceptional for about 2 months. I use it as not only a reward but also a sign that I respect her and her role. I give her the power to put me in a position and she makes the choice of how hard I get it. Now some will say your submitting to your sub you lose respect from her. Well in a way I am submitting in this one instance. But have I really after all she doesn’t get to decide when I do. I allow her this power. Also I enjoy it so I am getting what I want out of it. Also I feel that we should all have the highest respect for our sub after all mine gives herself to me completely and has never denied me anything witching the hard limits set at the beginning of our relationship.

    Topping from the bottom can be a very good thing

  12. Kate

    @ johny strongcock
    You said you did not claim to know what the BDSM community was then went on to say you had it “all figured out” and.. that it’s “not real”. Then you compared it to animal species as though it’s not something that is “chosen lifestyle” but some kind of set in stone DNA thing? “You can call a dog a cat but it’s actually just a dog”.

    How can you make the analogy between a lifestyle choice and animal species? You most definitely and absolutely make the effort to say that “your” way was the right way and the rest of us, who try to be sensitive individuals, are posers.

    I also really take offense your shots toward different groups of women. (cheap shots) Who doesn’t have a bit of psychological baggage? Guessing that those who have a bit of confident intuition, see you from far off and avoid you with a 10 foot stick. Subs are human with feelings and needs like anyone else. That’s.. a bad thing?

    I am so glad that you don’t represent the “real” anyone’s of the world. You just come off as someone who is pretty arrogant and that’s not a BDSM thing. That’s just an annoying character trait.

  13. Bethany

    I halfway expected Johny to mention the words “alpha male” and involve a fedora with the level of disdain shown for other people and styles of Domming, (if that’s what you can call not giving a care about your partner. Maybe if they consent, but the potential for abuse is so high.) Add in the “I never said that” and it’s obviously a post where the person feels entitled to judge everyone else and not look at their own actions. Dangerous in a Dom.

  14. Becca

    As usual I am late to the party but I felt like adding this bit. I have spent years missing something vital in my relationships. Someone introduced me to the world of BDSM and it seemed so right deep down inside. Still I have not been willing to make the leap into a relationship or even to try to find a top because of people like Johny Strongcock. I want to give myself over to a Dom that cares about keeping me safe not someone whose only concern is causing me pain for thier pleasure. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t expect a Dom be super concerned with my sexual pleasure and I don’t object to a little fear and pain, but I need to trust that, when I have no control, there is someone who looks after my well being. Push my boundaries up to, and maybe sometimes over, the edge but make sure I am safe. As a sub my job is to worship you and submit to your desires. I gain pleasure from that. But your job is to take care of me and make sure I am safe. If you don’t care about that then, really, why would I bother to submit. I can always find a man not into BDSM who will beat the crap out of me for his pleasure alone.

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